business case for migration

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business case for migration

anoordover
As a java-developer I think it is very important to migrate when new versions are released.
Currently we are running camel 2.4.2.
I think that we should migrate to 2.9 or 2.10, but I find it hard to define a business-case for this.
So "sell" that migration is neccesary.
How should I support it that this is really needed.
Any ideas?
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Re: business case for migration

Romain Manni-Bucau
Hi,

look dependencies upgrade, if your app lives you could benefit from it

another good reason to upgrade is linked to support: with a too old version
you'll get no support from anybody

if you don't maintain your app and don't need any support no need to
upgrade IMHO

*Romain Manni-Bucau*
*Twitter: @rmannibucau*
*Blog: **http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com/*<http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com/>
*LinkedIn: **http://fr.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau*




2012/9/24 anoordover <[hidden email]>

> As a java-developer I think it is very important to migrate when new
> versions
> are released.
> Currently we are running camel 2.4.2.
> I think that we should migrate to 2.9 or 2.10, but I find it hard to define
> a business-case for this.
> So "sell" that migration is neccesary.
> How should I support it that this is really needed.
> Any ideas?
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://camel.465427.n5.nabble.com/business-case-for-migration-tp5719868.html
> Sent from the Camel - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: business case for migration

Jothi
In reply to this post by anoordover
May be you should compare the feature differences between Camel 2.4 and
Camel 2.9, try to find an analogy on what benefits and value addition would
migrating to Camel 2.9 would bring for your project and whether this value
addition is financially substantial.

Regards,
Jothi

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 8:16 PM, anoordover <[hidden email]> wrote:

> As a java-developer I think it is very important to migrate when new
> versions
> are released.
> Currently we are running camel 2.4.2.
> I think that we should migrate to 2.9 or 2.10, but I find it hard to define
> a business-case for this.
> So "sell" that migration is neccesary.
> How should I support it that this is really needed.
> Any ideas?
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://camel.465427.n5.nabble.com/business-case-for-migration-tp5719868.html
> Sent from the Camel - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: business case for migration

Christian Mueller
Administrator
In reply to this post by anoordover
1) You have to pay to get support for older version or you have to do it by
your own. Both cases has costs...

2) If you check our issue tracker [1] you will see we fixed 720 issues
which are considered as bug starting with Camel 2.5.0 to 2.10.1 (the latest
version).
2293 issues in total, by the way...
It's likely you will hit a few of them if you use a very old version. To
find the issue and fix it (by your own) or find a workaround also has
costs...

3) If you violate your SLA because of an issues, you may have to pay
penalty. More important, you will lose confidence... At the end, it's
money...

Hope this will help...

[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CAMEL

Best,
Christian

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 8:16 PM, anoordover <[hidden email]> wrote:

> As a java-developer I think it is very important to migrate when new
> versions
> are released.
> Currently we are running camel 2.4.2.
> I think that we should migrate to 2.9 or 2.10, but I find it hard to define
> a business-case for this.
> So "sell" that migration is neccesary.
> How should I support it that this is really needed.
> Any ideas?
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://camel.465427.n5.nabble.com/business-case-for-migration-tp5719868.html
> Sent from the Camel - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>



--
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Re: business case for migration

dkulp@apache.org

Related to #2 in Christian's list are bugs and issues in some of the third party dependencies.  If you need fixes in things like CXF or ActiveMQ or similar, you may need to move to the latest Camel releases to be able to use those fixes.

As a concrete example, if you are using camel-cxf with Camel 2.5.0, you are vulnerable to several security vulnerabilities:
http://cxf.apache.org/security-advisories.html

However, to get fixes for some of the vulnerabilities, you would need to move up to the latest Camel releases that will work with the latest CXF releases.

In general, if you can keep your business close to "up to date", if a security vulnerability is discovered, it's a LOT quicker and easier to upgrade to the fixed versions.    Jumping up several versions in a timely manner to address a security issue can be challenge.   Updating just a patch can be significantly quicker and cheaper.


Dan



On Sep 24, 2012, at 4:30 PM, Christian Müller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 1) You have to pay to get support for older version or you have to do it by
> your own. Both cases has costs...
>
> 2) If you check our issue tracker [1] you will see we fixed 720 issues
> which are considered as bug starting with Camel 2.5.0 to 2.10.1 (the latest
> version).
> 2293 issues in total, by the way...
> It's likely you will hit a few of them if you use a very old version. To
> find the issue and fix it (by your own) or find a workaround also has
> costs...
>
> 3) If you violate your SLA because of an issues, you may have to pay
> penalty. More important, you will lose confidence... At the end, it's
> money...
>
> Hope this will help...
>
> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CAMEL
>
> Best,
> Christian
>
> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 8:16 PM, anoordover <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> As a java-developer I think it is very important to migrate when new
>> versions
>> are released.
>> Currently we are running camel 2.4.2.
>> I think that we should migrate to 2.9 or 2.10, but I find it hard to define
>> a business-case for this.
>> So "sell" that migration is neccesary.
>> How should I support it that this is really needed.
>> Any ideas?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://camel.465427.n5.nabble.com/business-case-for-migration-tp5719868.html
>> Sent from the Camel - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>
>
>
> --

--
Daniel Kulp
[hidden email] - http://dankulp.com/blog
Talend Community Coder - http://coders.talend.com

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Re: business case for migration

Denis Krizanovic
In reply to this post by anoordover
I think the business case is very challenged for this kind of thing. If a
light bulb is working, should we replace it?

Now, people will say.. but oh, what about the bugs that have been fixed..
If you are not impacted by any, does it matter? Migrating can sometimes
involve significant regression testing, and who is going to pay for that,
if it's not completely automated. Completely automating the testing of
integration solutions is pretty hard and expensive.

If you're doing work on the system, then upgrading the library as part of
the project should just happen? yes? Though again, you have to be careful
in understanding the test effort you might be exposing everyone to if you
do.


On 25 September 2012 04:16, anoordover <[hidden email]> wrote:

> As a java-developer I think it is very important to migrate when new
> versions
> are released.
> Currently we are running camel 2.4.2.
> I think that we should migrate to 2.9 or 2.10, but I find it hard to define
> a business-case for this.
> So "sell" that migration is neccesary.
> How should I support it that this is really needed.
> Any ideas?
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://camel.465427.n5.nabble.com/business-case-for-migration-tp5719868.html
> Sent from the Camel - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Re: business case for migration

Raul Kripalani
All the above comments are absolutely right.

But Denis has made a good point. If you need to justify the upgrade with
factors other than performance, security, etc., the speech will vary
depending on if you intend to actively continue developing on top of Camel,
or if the application is solely in "maintenance mode" for the remainder of
its lifetime.

Is there ongoing development going on?

Raúl.

Sent from a mobile device
On Sep 25, 2012 12:50 AM, "Denis Krizanovic" <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I think the business case is very challenged for this kind of thing. If a
> light bulb is working, should we replace it?
>
> Now, people will say.. but oh, what about the bugs that have been fixed..
> If you are not impacted by any, does it matter? Migrating can sometimes
> involve significant regression testing, and who is going to pay for that,
> if it's not completely automated. Completely automating the testing of
> integration solutions is pretty hard and expensive.
>
> If you're doing work on the system, then upgrading the library as part of
> the project should just happen? yes? Though again, you have to be careful
> in understanding the test effort you might be exposing everyone to if you
> do.
>
>
> On 25 September 2012 04:16, anoordover <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > As a java-developer I think it is very important to migrate when new
> > versions
> > are released.
> > Currently we are running camel 2.4.2.
> > I think that we should migrate to 2.9 or 2.10, but I find it hard to
> define
> > a business-case for this.
> > So "sell" that migration is neccesary.
> > How should I support it that this is really needed.
> > Any ideas?
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> >
> http://camel.465427.n5.nabble.com/business-case-for-migration-tp5719868.html
> > Sent from the Camel - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >
>
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Re: business case for migration

anoordover
I think I have enough things to take into account for a bussinescase.
Thank you for all your responses.

Btw we have ongoing development