Re: [HEADS UP] - Java 8 to be dropped

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Re: [HEADS UP] - Java 8 to be dropped

Alex Dettinger
Thanks for sharing Claus :)
Is the support ending at june 2021 ? Or maybe I miss something ?

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:23 AM Claus Ibsen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi
>
> Just a heads up that from Camel 3.5 onwards we will drop Java 8 support.
>
> So this means that minimum Java version is now Java 11.
> We are also working on adding support for Java 14, but it may take a
> few releases, but its planned for the next LTS 3.7 release to have
> both Java 11 and 14 as supported.
>
> Camel 3.4.x is the LTS release that supports both Java 8 and 11, and
> its supported for 1-year (june 2022).
>
>
>
> --
> Claus Ibsen
> -----------------
> http://davsclaus.com @davsclaus
> Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2
>
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Re: [HEADS UP] - Java 8 to be dropped

Peter Palaga
Hi Claus,

we have announced a similar move for Camel Quarkus some time ago. We did
that based on a similar Quarkus announcement [1]. But when I was about
to perform the necessary changes, it turned out that Quarkus got some
pushback from the users and thus they abandoned the plan without letting
us know - see [2]. As a result, Camel Quarkus also had to revisit the
plan. We have decided to make Java 11 our main build and testing JDK,
but kept both source and target compatibility at Java 8.

Requiring Java 11+ API on the Camel side would put Camel Quarkus in a
bit uncomfortable position: unlike all other extensions offered via
code.quarkus.io, our extensions would not work on Java 8 in JVM mode.

We (Camel community) should figure out how to proceed.

[1] https://quarkus.io/blog/quarkus-1-4-final-released/#java-8-deprecated
[2] https://groups.google.com/d/msg/quarkus-dev/yzEjmYCFbwY/oW64kts3AQAJ

Thanks,

-- Peter

On 26/06/2020 10:23, Claus Ibsen wrote:

> Hi
>
> Just a heads up that from Camel 3.5 onwards we will drop Java 8 support.
>
> So this means that minimum Java version is now Java 11.
> We are also working on adding support for Java 14, but it may take a
> few releases, but its planned for the next LTS 3.7 release to have
> both Java 11 and 14 as supported.
>
> Camel 3.4.x is the LTS release that supports both Java 8 and 11, and
> its supported for 1-year (june 2022).
>
>
>

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Re: [HEADS UP] - Java 8 to be dropped

Claus Ibsen-2
Hi

On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 4:28 PM Peter Palaga <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi Claus,
>
> we have announced a similar move for Camel Quarkus some time ago. We did
> that based on a similar Quarkus announcement [1]. But when I was about
> to perform the necessary changes, it turned out that Quarkus got some
> pushback from the users and thus they abandoned the plan without letting
> us know - see [2]. As a result, Camel Quarkus also had to revisit the
> plan. We have decided to make Java 11 our main build and testing JDK,
> but kept both source and target compatibility at Java 8.
>
> Requiring Java 11+ API on the Camel side would put Camel Quarkus in a
> bit uncomfortable position: unlike all other extensions offered via
> code.quarkus.io, our extensions would not work on Java 8 in JVM mode.
>
> We (Camel community) should figure out how to proceed.
>

The drop of Java 8 is planned for next LTS (Camel 3.7) which is by end
of this year.
So there is still 6 months to go. In that time Quarkus may get to a
point where they have dropped Java 8 as well.

But for Camel 3.5 we can surely wait to drop Java 8 so it does not
happen soon on the Camel side.

Would ou you go ask the Quarkus team what new timeframe they have for
dropping Java 8?


> [1] https://quarkus.io/blog/quarkus-1-4-final-released/#java-8-deprecated
> [2] https://groups.google.com/d/msg/quarkus-dev/yzEjmYCFbwY/oW64kts3AQAJ
>
> Thanks,
>
> -- Peter
>
> On 26/06/2020 10:23, Claus Ibsen wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > Just a heads up that from Camel 3.5 onwards we will drop Java 8 support.
> >
> > So this means that minimum Java version is now Java 11.
> > We are also working on adding support for Java 14, but it may take a
> > few releases, but its planned for the next LTS 3.7 release to have
> > both Java 11 and 14 as supported.
> >
> > Camel 3.4.x is the LTS release that supports both Java 8 and 11, and
> > its supported for 1-year (june 2022).
> >
> >
> >
>


--
Claus Ibsen
-----------------
http://davsclaus.com @davsclaus
Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2
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Re: [HEADS UP] - Java 8 to be dropped

Maria Arias de Reyna Dominguez
> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 4:28 PM Peter Palaga <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Requiring Java 11+ API on the Camel side would put Camel Quarkus in a
> > bit uncomfortable position: unlike all other extensions offered via
> > code.quarkus.io, our extensions would not work on Java 8 in JVM mode.

Maybe that's even good because then people will realize Quarkus needs
to move on from Java 8 so this helps the Quarkus team?

I still have to find people willing to move to new major versions
that break backwards compatibility (like Java 8 to 11) without being
forced to :)

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Re: [HEADS UP] - Java 8 to be dropped

Peter Palaga
In reply to this post by Claus Ibsen-2
On 29/06/2020 07:29, Claus Ibsen wrote:

> Hi
>
> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 4:28 PM Peter Palaga <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Claus,
>>
>> we have announced a similar move for Camel Quarkus some time ago. We did
>> that based on a similar Quarkus announcement [1]. But when I was about
>> to perform the necessary changes, it turned out that Quarkus got some
>> pushback from the users and thus they abandoned the plan without letting
>> us know - see [2]. As a result, Camel Quarkus also had to revisit the
>> plan. We have decided to make Java 11 our main build and testing JDK,
>> but kept both source and target compatibility at Java 8.
>>
>> Requiring Java 11+ API on the Camel side would put Camel Quarkus in a
>> bit uncomfortable position: unlike all other extensions offered via
>> code.quarkus.io, our extensions would not work on Java 8 in JVM mode.
>>
>> We (Camel community) should figure out how to proceed.
>>
>
> The drop of Java 8 is planned for next LTS (Camel 3.7) which is by end
> of this year.
> So there is still 6 months to go. In that time Quarkus may get to a
> point where they have dropped Java 8 as well.
>
> But for Camel 3.5 we can surely wait to drop Java 8 so it does not
> happen soon on the Camel side.
>
> Would ou you go ask the Quarkus team what new timeframe they have for
> dropping Java 8?

Asked https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/quarkus-dev/7SZAM2BMb9c
-- P

>
>> [1] https://quarkus.io/blog/quarkus-1-4-final-released/#java-8-deprecated
>> [2] https://groups.google.com/d/msg/quarkus-dev/yzEjmYCFbwY/oW64kts3AQAJ
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -- Peter
>>
>> On 26/06/2020 10:23, Claus Ibsen wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> Just a heads up that from Camel 3.5 onwards we will drop Java 8 support.
>>>
>>> So this means that minimum Java version is now Java 11.
>>> We are also working on adding support for Java 14, but it may take a
>>> few releases, but its planned for the next LTS 3.7 release to have
>>> both Java 11 and 14 as supported.
>>>
>>> Camel 3.4.x is the LTS release that supports both Java 8 and 11, and
>>> its supported for 1-year (june 2022).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

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Re: [HEADS UP] - Java 8 to be dropped

Peter Palaga
On 29/06/2020 11:59, Peter Palaga wrote:

> On 29/06/2020 07:29, Claus Ibsen wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 4:28 PM Peter Palaga <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Claus,
>>>
>>> we have announced a similar move for Camel Quarkus some time ago. We did
>>> that based on a similar Quarkus announcement [1]. But when I was about
>>> to perform the necessary changes, it turned out that Quarkus got some
>>> pushback from the users and thus they abandoned the plan without letting
>>> us know - see [2]. As a result, Camel Quarkus also had to revisit the
>>> plan. We have decided to make Java 11 our main build and testing JDK,
>>> but kept both source and target compatibility at Java 8.
>>>
>>> Requiring Java 11+ API on the Camel side would put Camel Quarkus in a
>>> bit uncomfortable position: unlike all other extensions offered via
>>> code.quarkus.io, our extensions would not work on Java 8 in JVM mode.
>>>
>>> We (Camel community) should figure out how to proceed.
>>>
>>
>> The drop of Java 8 is planned for next LTS (Camel 3.7) which is by end
>> of this year.
>> So there is still 6 months to go. In that time Quarkus may get to a
>> point where they have dropped Java 8 as well.
>>
>> But for Camel 3.5 we can surely wait to drop Java 8 so it does not
>> happen soon on the Camel side.
>>
>> Would ou you go ask the Quarkus team what new timeframe they have for
>> dropping Java 8?
>
> Asked https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/quarkus-dev/7SZAM2BMb9c

They asked back, what are our motivations for removing Java 8. I can say
for myself that it is mainly a simplification of our testing matrix. Are
there any other reasons?

Besides they noted that Azure Functions still only supports Java 8.

-- P

>
>>
>>> [1]
>>> https://quarkus.io/blog/quarkus-1-4-final-released/#java-8-deprecated
>>> [2] https://groups.google.com/d/msg/quarkus-dev/yzEjmYCFbwY/oW64kts3AQAJ
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> -- Peter
>>>
>>> On 26/06/2020 10:23, Claus Ibsen wrote:
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> Just a heads up that from Camel 3.5 onwards we will drop Java 8
>>>> support.
>>>>
>>>> So this means that minimum Java version is now Java 11.
>>>> We are also working on adding support for Java 14, but it may take a
>>>> few releases, but its planned for the next LTS 3.7 release to have
>>>> both Java 11 and 14 as supported.
>>>>
>>>> Camel 3.4.x is the LTS release that supports both Java 8 and 11, and
>>>> its supported for 1-year (june 2022).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

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Re: [HEADS UP] - Java 8 to be dropped

Guillaume Nodet-2
Note that we changed a bunch of lambda expressions back to anonymous
classes a few months ago, so trying to get to the latest is not always the
best choice.
I'm not sure we need to drop Java 8 now.  We can defer that decision until
we have more incentive I think.,

Le lun. 29 juin 2020 à 18:01, Peter Palaga <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> On 29/06/2020 11:59, Peter Palaga wrote:
> > On 29/06/2020 07:29, Claus Ibsen wrote:
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 4:28 PM Peter Palaga <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Claus,
> >>>
> >>> we have announced a similar move for Camel Quarkus some time ago. We
> did
> >>> that based on a similar Quarkus announcement [1]. But when I was about
> >>> to perform the necessary changes, it turned out that Quarkus got some
> >>> pushback from the users and thus they abandoned the plan without
> letting
> >>> us know - see [2]. As a result, Camel Quarkus also had to revisit the
> >>> plan. We have decided to make Java 11 our main build and testing JDK,
> >>> but kept both source and target compatibility at Java 8.
> >>>
> >>> Requiring Java 11+ API on the Camel side would put Camel Quarkus in a
> >>> bit uncomfortable position: unlike all other extensions offered via
> >>> code.quarkus.io, our extensions would not work on Java 8 in JVM mode.
> >>>
> >>> We (Camel community) should figure out how to proceed.
> >>>
> >>
> >> The drop of Java 8 is planned for next LTS (Camel 3.7) which is by end
> >> of this year.
> >> So there is still 6 months to go. In that time Quarkus may get to a
> >> point where they have dropped Java 8 as well.
> >>
> >> But for Camel 3.5 we can surely wait to drop Java 8 so it does not
> >> happen soon on the Camel side.
> >>
> >> Would ou you go ask the Quarkus team what new timeframe they have for
> >> dropping Java 8?
> >
> > Asked https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/quarkus-dev/7SZAM2BMb9c
>
> They asked back, what are our motivations for removing Java 8. I can say
> for myself that it is mainly a simplification of our testing matrix. Are
> there any other reasons?
>
> Besides they noted that Azure Functions still only supports Java 8.
>
> -- P
>
> >
> >>
> >>> [1]
> >>> https://quarkus.io/blog/quarkus-1-4-final-released/#java-8-deprecated
> >>> [2]
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/quarkus-dev/yzEjmYCFbwY/oW64kts3AQAJ
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> -- Peter
> >>>
> >>> On 26/06/2020 10:23, Claus Ibsen wrote:
> >>>> Hi
> >>>>
> >>>> Just a heads up that from Camel 3.5 onwards we will drop Java 8
> >>>> support.
> >>>>
> >>>> So this means that minimum Java version is now Java 11.
> >>>> We are also working on adding support for Java 14, but it may take a
> >>>> few releases, but its planned for the next LTS 3.7 release to have
> >>>> both Java 11 and 14 as supported.
> >>>>
> >>>> Camel 3.4.x is the LTS release that supports both Java 8 and 11, and
> >>>> its supported for 1-year (june 2022).
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>

--
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
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Re: [HEADS UP] - Java 8 to be dropped

jbonofre
Agree, I think we should be very careful about communication.

It’s the same about EOL branch/release. Actually EOL doesn’t really exist at Apache: anyone can fix/change an old branch and cut a release on it.
So, I fully understand the purpose, but I think we should be more "flexible" and communicate early enough to our users.

Regards
JB

> Le 29 juin 2020 à 22:23, Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> Note that we changed a bunch of lambda expressions back to anonymous
> classes a few months ago, so trying to get to the latest is not always the
> best choice.
> I'm not sure we need to drop Java 8 now.  We can defer that decision until
> we have more incentive I think.,
>
> Le lun. 29 juin 2020 à 18:01, Peter Palaga <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
>> On 29/06/2020 11:59, Peter Palaga wrote:
>>> On 29/06/2020 07:29, Claus Ibsen wrote:
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 4:28 PM Peter Palaga <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Claus,
>>>>>
>>>>> we have announced a similar move for Camel Quarkus some time ago. We
>> did
>>>>> that based on a similar Quarkus announcement [1]. But when I was about
>>>>> to perform the necessary changes, it turned out that Quarkus got some
>>>>> pushback from the users and thus they abandoned the plan without
>> letting
>>>>> us know - see [2]. As a result, Camel Quarkus also had to revisit the
>>>>> plan. We have decided to make Java 11 our main build and testing JDK,
>>>>> but kept both source and target compatibility at Java 8.
>>>>>
>>>>> Requiring Java 11+ API on the Camel side would put Camel Quarkus in a
>>>>> bit uncomfortable position: unlike all other extensions offered via
>>>>> code.quarkus.io, our extensions would not work on Java 8 in JVM mode.
>>>>>
>>>>> We (Camel community) should figure out how to proceed.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The drop of Java 8 is planned for next LTS (Camel 3.7) which is by end
>>>> of this year.
>>>> So there is still 6 months to go. In that time Quarkus may get to a
>>>> point where they have dropped Java 8 as well.
>>>>
>>>> But for Camel 3.5 we can surely wait to drop Java 8 so it does not
>>>> happen soon on the Camel side.
>>>>
>>>> Would ou you go ask the Quarkus team what new timeframe they have for
>>>> dropping Java 8?
>>>
>>> Asked https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/quarkus-dev/7SZAM2BMb9c
>>
>> They asked back, what are our motivations for removing Java 8. I can say
>> for myself that it is mainly a simplification of our testing matrix. Are
>> there any other reasons?
>>
>> Besides they noted that Azure Functions still only supports Java 8.
>>
>> -- P
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> [1]
>>>>> https://quarkus.io/blog/quarkus-1-4-final-released/#java-8-deprecated
>>>>> [2]
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/quarkus-dev/yzEjmYCFbwY/oW64kts3AQAJ
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Peter
>>>>>
>>>>> On 26/06/2020 10:23, Claus Ibsen wrote:
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just a heads up that from Camel 3.5 onwards we will drop Java 8
>>>>>> support.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So this means that minimum Java version is now Java 11.
>>>>>> We are also working on adding support for Java 14, but it may take a
>>>>>> few releases, but its planned for the next LTS 3.7 release to have
>>>>>> both Java 11 and 14 as supported.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Camel 3.4.x is the LTS release that supports both Java 8 and 11, and
>>>>>> its supported for 1-year (june 2022).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> ------------------------
> Guillaume Nodet

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Re: [HEADS UP] - Java 8 to be dropped

Peter Palaga
On 30/06/2020 09:29, Jean-Baptiste Onofre wrote:

> Agree, I think we should be very careful about communication.
>
> It’s the same about EOL branch/release. Actually EOL doesn’t really exist at Apache: anyone can fix/change an old branch and cut a release on it.
> So, I fully understand the purpose, but I think we should be more "flexible" and communicate early enough to our users.
>
> Regards
> JB
>
>> Le 29 juin 2020 à 22:23, Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>>
>> Note that we changed a bunch of lambda expressions back to anonymous
>> classes a few months ago, so trying to get to the latest is not always the
>> best choice.
>> I'm not sure we need to drop Java 8 now.  We can defer that decision until
>> we have more incentive I think.,
>>
>> Le lun. 29 juin 2020 à 18:01, Peter Palaga <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>>
>>> On 29/06/2020 11:59, Peter Palaga wrote:
>>>> On 29/06/2020 07:29, Claus Ibsen wrote:
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 4:28 PM Peter Palaga <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Claus,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> we have announced a similar move for Camel Quarkus some time ago. We
>>> did
>>>>>> that based on a similar Quarkus announcement [1]. But when I was about
>>>>>> to perform the necessary changes, it turned out that Quarkus got some
>>>>>> pushback from the users and thus they abandoned the plan without
>>> letting
>>>>>> us know - see [2]. As a result, Camel Quarkus also had to revisit the
>>>>>> plan. We have decided to make Java 11 our main build and testing JDK,
>>>>>> but kept both source and target compatibility at Java 8.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Requiring Java 11+ API on the Camel side would put Camel Quarkus in a
>>>>>> bit uncomfortable position: unlike all other extensions offered via
>>>>>> code.quarkus.io, our extensions would not work on Java 8 in JVM mode.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We (Camel community) should figure out how to proceed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The drop of Java 8 is planned for next LTS (Camel 3.7) which is by end
>>>>> of this year.
>>>>> So there is still 6 months to go. In that time Quarkus may get to a
>>>>> point where they have dropped Java 8 as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> But for Camel 3.5 we can surely wait to drop Java 8 so it does not
>>>>> happen soon on the Camel side.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would ou you go ask the Quarkus team what new timeframe they have for
>>>>> dropping Java 8?
>>>>
>>>> Asked https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/quarkus-dev/7SZAM2BMb9c
>>>
>>> They asked back, what are our motivations for removing Java 8. I can say
>>> for myself that it is mainly a simplification of our testing matrix. Are
>>> there any other reasons?

Are there any other benefits of dropping Java 8?

-- P

>>> Besides they noted that Azure Functions still only supports Java 8.
>>>
>>> -- P
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>> https://quarkus.io/blog/quarkus-1-4-final-released/#java-8-deprecated
>>>>>> [2]
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/quarkus-dev/yzEjmYCFbwY/oW64kts3AQAJ
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- Peter
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 26/06/2020 10:23, Claus Ibsen wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just a heads up that from Camel 3.5 onwards we will drop Java 8
>>>>>>> support.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So this means that minimum Java version is now Java 11.
>>>>>>> We are also working on adding support for Java 14, but it may take a
>>>>>>> few releases, but its planned for the next LTS 3.7 release to have
>>>>>>> both Java 11 and 14 as supported.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Camel 3.4.x is the LTS release that supports both Java 8 and 11, and
>>>>>>> its supported for 1-year (june 2022).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------
>> Guillaume Nodet
>

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Re: [HEADS UP] - Java 8 to be dropped

lburgazzoli
In reply to this post by Guillaume Nodet-2
I don't think that migrating to a new version also means that we need to
embrace every new feature automatically but that we can use them when it
makes sense but staying with an older version means that we can't use them
in any case.

---
Luca Burgazzoli


On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 10:23 PM Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Note that we changed a bunch of lambda expressions back to anonymous
> classes a few months ago, so trying to get to the latest is not always the
> best choice.
> I'm not sure we need to drop Java 8 now.  We can defer that decision until
> we have more incentive I think.,
>
> Le lun. 29 juin 2020 à 18:01, Peter Palaga <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> > On 29/06/2020 11:59, Peter Palaga wrote:
> > > On 29/06/2020 07:29, Claus Ibsen wrote:
> > >> Hi
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 4:28 PM Peter Palaga <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi Claus,
> > >>>
> > >>> we have announced a similar move for Camel Quarkus some time ago. We
> > did
> > >>> that based on a similar Quarkus announcement [1]. But when I was
> about
> > >>> to perform the necessary changes, it turned out that Quarkus got some
> > >>> pushback from the users and thus they abandoned the plan without
> > letting
> > >>> us know - see [2]. As a result, Camel Quarkus also had to revisit the
> > >>> plan. We have decided to make Java 11 our main build and testing JDK,
> > >>> but kept both source and target compatibility at Java 8.
> > >>>
> > >>> Requiring Java 11+ API on the Camel side would put Camel Quarkus in a
> > >>> bit uncomfortable position: unlike all other extensions offered via
> > >>> code.quarkus.io, our extensions would not work on Java 8 in JVM
> mode.
> > >>>
> > >>> We (Camel community) should figure out how to proceed.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> The drop of Java 8 is planned for next LTS (Camel 3.7) which is by end
> > >> of this year.
> > >> So there is still 6 months to go. In that time Quarkus may get to a
> > >> point where they have dropped Java 8 as well.
> > >>
> > >> But for Camel 3.5 we can surely wait to drop Java 8 so it does not
> > >> happen soon on the Camel side.
> > >>
> > >> Would ou you go ask the Quarkus team what new timeframe they have for
> > >> dropping Java 8?
> > >
> > > Asked https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/quarkus-dev/7SZAM2BMb9c
> >
> > They asked back, what are our motivations for removing Java 8. I can say
> > for myself that it is mainly a simplification of our testing matrix. Are
> > there any other reasons?
> >
> > Besides they noted that Azure Functions still only supports Java 8.
> >
> > -- P
> >
> > >
> > >>
> > >>> [1]
> > >>>
> https://quarkus.io/blog/quarkus-1-4-final-released/#java-8-deprecated
> > >>> [2]
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/quarkus-dev/yzEjmYCFbwY/oW64kts3AQAJ
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>>
> > >>> -- Peter
> > >>>
> > >>> On 26/06/2020 10:23, Claus Ibsen wrote:
> > >>>> Hi
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Just a heads up that from Camel 3.5 onwards we will drop Java 8
> > >>>> support.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> So this means that minimum Java version is now Java 11.
> > >>>> We are also working on adding support for Java 14, but it may take a
> > >>>> few releases, but its planned for the next LTS 3.7 release to have
> > >>>> both Java 11 and 14 as supported.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Camel 3.4.x is the LTS release that supports both Java 8 and 11, and
> > >>>> its supported for 1-year (june 2022).
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
>
> --
> ------------------------
> Guillaume Nodet
>
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Re: [HEADS UP] - Java 8 to be dropped

Omar Al-Safi
My question would be, until when we will need to keep Java 8? I mean sure,
given the current circumstances, it might make sense to delay dropping Java
8 only for some time, but honestly would be nice if we can embrace the new
change and massive efforts that are being brought into Java to have
modernized (especially the new features being Java 14). It would be a pity
if we can't enjoy these new features being brought in by the Java community
and I don't want to see us stucking with Java 8 for another 10 years.
The change has to be forced at some point of the chain in order to trickle
down.

These are only my thoughts on this subject.

Regards,
Omar

On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 1:33 PM Luca Burgazzoli <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I don't think that migrating to a new version also means that we need to
> embrace every new feature automatically but that we can use them when it
> makes sense but staying with an older version means that we can't use them
> in any case.
>
> ---
> Luca Burgazzoli
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 10:23 PM Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Note that we changed a bunch of lambda expressions back to anonymous
> > classes a few months ago, so trying to get to the latest is not always
> the
> > best choice.
> > I'm not sure we need to drop Java 8 now.  We can defer that decision
> until
> > we have more incentive I think.,
> >
> > Le lun. 29 juin 2020 à 18:01, Peter Palaga <[hidden email]> a écrit
> :
> >
> > > On 29/06/2020 11:59, Peter Palaga wrote:
> > > > On 29/06/2020 07:29, Claus Ibsen wrote:
> > > >> Hi
> > > >>
> > > >> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 4:28 PM Peter Palaga <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Hi Claus,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> we have announced a similar move for Camel Quarkus some time ago.
> We
> > > did
> > > >>> that based on a similar Quarkus announcement [1]. But when I was
> > about
> > > >>> to perform the necessary changes, it turned out that Quarkus got
> some
> > > >>> pushback from the users and thus they abandoned the plan without
> > > letting
> > > >>> us know - see [2]. As a result, Camel Quarkus also had to revisit
> the
> > > >>> plan. We have decided to make Java 11 our main build and testing
> JDK,
> > > >>> but kept both source and target compatibility at Java 8.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Requiring Java 11+ API on the Camel side would put Camel Quarkus
> in a
> > > >>> bit uncomfortable position: unlike all other extensions offered via
> > > >>> code.quarkus.io, our extensions would not work on Java 8 in JVM
> > mode.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> We (Camel community) should figure out how to proceed.
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> The drop of Java 8 is planned for next LTS (Camel 3.7) which is by
> end
> > > >> of this year.
> > > >> So there is still 6 months to go. In that time Quarkus may get to a
> > > >> point where they have dropped Java 8 as well.
> > > >>
> > > >> But for Camel 3.5 we can surely wait to drop Java 8 so it does not
> > > >> happen soon on the Camel side.
> > > >>
> > > >> Would ou you go ask the Quarkus team what new timeframe they have
> for
> > > >> dropping Java 8?
> > > >
> > > > Asked
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/quarkus-dev/7SZAM2BMb9c
> > >
> > > They asked back, what are our motivations for removing Java 8. I can
> say
> > > for myself that it is mainly a simplification of our testing matrix.
> Are
> > > there any other reasons?
> > >
> > > Besides they noted that Azure Functions still only supports Java 8.
> > >
> > > -- P
> > >
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >>> [1]
> > > >>>
> > https://quarkus.io/blog/quarkus-1-4-final-released/#java-8-deprecated
> > > >>> [2]
> > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/quarkus-dev/yzEjmYCFbwY/oW64kts3AQAJ
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thanks,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> -- Peter
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On 26/06/2020 10:23, Claus Ibsen wrote:
> > > >>>> Hi
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Just a heads up that from Camel 3.5 onwards we will drop Java 8
> > > >>>> support.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> So this means that minimum Java version is now Java 11.
> > > >>>> We are also working on adding support for Java 14, but it may
> take a
> > > >>>> few releases, but its planned for the next LTS 3.7 release to have
> > > >>>> both Java 11 and 14 as supported.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Camel 3.4.x is the LTS release that supports both Java 8 and 11,
> and
> > > >>>> its supported for 1-year (june 2022).
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > ------------------------
> > Guillaume Nodet
> >
>
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Re: [HEADS UP] - Java 8 to be dropped

lburgazzoli
In reply to this post by Peter Palaga
I think that unless someone "big" in the OSS makes a move, most libraries
will stay with Java 8 till they are forced so I guess someone should be
brave and make the move.

---
Luca Burgazzoli


On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 12:57 PM Peter Palaga <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 30/06/2020 09:29, Jean-Baptiste Onofre wrote:
> > Agree, I think we should be very careful about communication.
> >
> > It’s the same about EOL branch/release. Actually EOL doesn’t really
> exist at Apache: anyone can fix/change an old branch and cut a release on
> it.
> > So, I fully understand the purpose, but I think we should be more
> "flexible" and communicate early enough to our users.
> >
> > Regards
> > JB
> >
> >> Le 29 juin 2020 à 22:23, Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> >>
> >> Note that we changed a bunch of lambda expressions back to anonymous
> >> classes a few months ago, so trying to get to the latest is not always
> the
> >> best choice.
> >> I'm not sure we need to drop Java 8 now.  We can defer that decision
> until
> >> we have more incentive I think.,
> >>
> >> Le lun. 29 juin 2020 à 18:01, Peter Palaga <[hidden email]> a
> écrit :
> >>
> >>> On 29/06/2020 11:59, Peter Palaga wrote:
> >>>> On 29/06/2020 07:29, Claus Ibsen wrote:
> >>>>> Hi
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 4:28 PM Peter Palaga <[hidden email]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Claus,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> we have announced a similar move for Camel Quarkus some time ago. We
> >>> did
> >>>>>> that based on a similar Quarkus announcement [1]. But when I was
> about
> >>>>>> to perform the necessary changes, it turned out that Quarkus got
> some
> >>>>>> pushback from the users and thus they abandoned the plan without
> >>> letting
> >>>>>> us know - see [2]. As a result, Camel Quarkus also had to revisit
> the
> >>>>>> plan. We have decided to make Java 11 our main build and testing
> JDK,
> >>>>>> but kept both source and target compatibility at Java 8.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Requiring Java 11+ API on the Camel side would put Camel Quarkus in
> a
> >>>>>> bit uncomfortable position: unlike all other extensions offered via
> >>>>>> code.quarkus.io, our extensions would not work on Java 8 in JVM
> mode.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We (Camel community) should figure out how to proceed.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The drop of Java 8 is planned for next LTS (Camel 3.7) which is by
> end
> >>>>> of this year.
> >>>>> So there is still 6 months to go. In that time Quarkus may get to a
> >>>>> point where they have dropped Java 8 as well.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But for Camel 3.5 we can surely wait to drop Java 8 so it does not
> >>>>> happen soon on the Camel side.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Would ou you go ask the Quarkus team what new timeframe they have for
> >>>>> dropping Java 8?
> >>>>
> >>>> Asked https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/quarkus-dev/7SZAM2BMb9c
> >>>
> >>> They asked back, what are our motivations for removing Java 8. I can
> say
> >>> for myself that it is mainly a simplification of our testing matrix.
> Are
> >>> there any other reasons?
>
> Are there any other benefits of dropping Java 8?
>
> -- P
>
> >>> Besides they noted that Azure Functions still only supports Java 8.
> >>>
> >>> -- P
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> [1]
> >>>>>>
> https://quarkus.io/blog/quarkus-1-4-final-released/#java-8-deprecated
> >>>>>> [2]
> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/quarkus-dev/yzEjmYCFbwY/oW64kts3AQAJ
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -- Peter
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 26/06/2020 10:23, Claus Ibsen wrote:
> >>>>>>> Hi
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Just a heads up that from Camel 3.5 onwards we will drop Java 8
> >>>>>>> support.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So this means that minimum Java version is now Java 11.
> >>>>>>> We are also working on adding support for Java 14, but it may take
> a
> >>>>>>> few releases, but its planned for the next LTS 3.7 release to have
> >>>>>>> both Java 11 and 14 as supported.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Camel 3.4.x is the LTS release that supports both Java 8 and 11,
> and
> >>>>>>> its supported for 1-year (june 2022).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> ------------------------
> >> Guillaume Nodet
> >
>
>
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Re: [HEADS UP] - Java 8 to be dropped

Guillaume Nodet-2
We could try using the multi-release jar feature in order to leverage new
JDK 11 or JDK 14 features without completely dropping JDK 8, but that's
definitely more work.  I haven't seen many projects using it yet, so not
sure how that's manageable from a development perspective.

Le mar. 30 juin 2020 à 13:50, Luca Burgazzoli <[hidden email]> a
écrit :

> I think that unless someone "big" in the OSS makes a move, most libraries
> will stay with Java 8 till they are forced so I guess someone should be
> brave and make the move.
>
> ---
> Luca Burgazzoli
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 12:57 PM Peter Palaga <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On 30/06/2020 09:29, Jean-Baptiste Onofre wrote:
> > > Agree, I think we should be very careful about communication.
> > >
> > > It’s the same about EOL branch/release. Actually EOL doesn’t really
> > exist at Apache: anyone can fix/change an old branch and cut a release on
> > it.
> > > So, I fully understand the purpose, but I think we should be more
> > "flexible" and communicate early enough to our users.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > JB
> > >
> > >> Le 29 juin 2020 à 22:23, Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]> a écrit
> :
> > >>
> > >> Note that we changed a bunch of lambda expressions back to anonymous
> > >> classes a few months ago, so trying to get to the latest is not always
> > the
> > >> best choice.
> > >> I'm not sure we need to drop Java 8 now.  We can defer that decision
> > until
> > >> we have more incentive I think.,
> > >>
> > >> Le lun. 29 juin 2020 à 18:01, Peter Palaga <[hidden email]> a
> > écrit :
> > >>
> > >>> On 29/06/2020 11:59, Peter Palaga wrote:
> > >>>> On 29/06/2020 07:29, Claus Ibsen wrote:
> > >>>>> Hi
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 4:28 PM Peter Palaga <[hidden email]>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Hi Claus,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> we have announced a similar move for Camel Quarkus some time ago.
> We
> > >>> did
> > >>>>>> that based on a similar Quarkus announcement [1]. But when I was
> > about
> > >>>>>> to perform the necessary changes, it turned out that Quarkus got
> > some
> > >>>>>> pushback from the users and thus they abandoned the plan without
> > >>> letting
> > >>>>>> us know - see [2]. As a result, Camel Quarkus also had to revisit
> > the
> > >>>>>> plan. We have decided to make Java 11 our main build and testing
> > JDK,
> > >>>>>> but kept both source and target compatibility at Java 8.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Requiring Java 11+ API on the Camel side would put Camel Quarkus
> in
> > a
> > >>>>>> bit uncomfortable position: unlike all other extensions offered
> via
> > >>>>>> code.quarkus.io, our extensions would not work on Java 8 in JVM
> > mode.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> We (Camel community) should figure out how to proceed.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The drop of Java 8 is planned for next LTS (Camel 3.7) which is by
> > end
> > >>>>> of this year.
> > >>>>> So there is still 6 months to go. In that time Quarkus may get to a
> > >>>>> point where they have dropped Java 8 as well.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> But for Camel 3.5 we can surely wait to drop Java 8 so it does not
> > >>>>> happen soon on the Camel side.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Would ou you go ask the Quarkus team what new timeframe they have
> for
> > >>>>> dropping Java 8?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Asked
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/quarkus-dev/7SZAM2BMb9c
> > >>>
> > >>> They asked back, what are our motivations for removing Java 8. I can
> > say
> > >>> for myself that it is mainly a simplification of our testing matrix.
> > Are
> > >>> there any other reasons?
> >
> > Are there any other benefits of dropping Java 8?
> >
> > -- P
> >
> > >>> Besides they noted that Azure Functions still only supports Java 8.
> > >>>
> > >>> -- P
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> [1]
> > >>>>>>
> > https://quarkus.io/blog/quarkus-1-4-final-released/#java-8-deprecated
> > >>>>>> [2]
> > >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/quarkus-dev/yzEjmYCFbwY/oW64kts3AQAJ
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> -- Peter
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On 26/06/2020 10:23, Claus Ibsen wrote:
> > >>>>>>> Hi
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Just a heads up that from Camel 3.5 onwards we will drop Java 8
> > >>>>>>> support.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> So this means that minimum Java version is now Java 11.
> > >>>>>>> We are also working on adding support for Java 14, but it may
> take
> > a
> > >>>>>>> few releases, but its planned for the next LTS 3.7 release to
> have
> > >>>>>>> both Java 11 and 14 as supported.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Camel 3.4.x is the LTS release that supports both Java 8 and 11,
> > and
> > >>>>>>> its supported for 1-year (june 2022).
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> ------------------------
> > >> Guillaume Nodet
> > >
> >
> >
>


--
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
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Re: [HEADS UP] - Java 8 to be dropped

Andrea Cosentino-3
I don't know if it's feasible, we are already demanding a lot of work to
the release manager and I guess going through the multi release jar
approach will be much more troublesome.

Il giorno mar 30 giu 2020 alle ore 14:14 Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]>
ha scritto:

> We could try using the multi-release jar feature in order to leverage new
> JDK 11 or JDK 14 features without completely dropping JDK 8, but that's
> definitely more work.  I haven't seen many projects using it yet, so not
> sure how that's manageable from a development perspective.
>
> Le mar. 30 juin 2020 à 13:50, Luca Burgazzoli <[hidden email]> a
> écrit :
>
> > I think that unless someone "big" in the OSS makes a move, most libraries
> > will stay with Java 8 till they are forced so I guess someone should be
> > brave and make the move.
> >
> > ---
> > Luca Burgazzoli
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 12:57 PM Peter Palaga <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > On 30/06/2020 09:29, Jean-Baptiste Onofre wrote:
> > > > Agree, I think we should be very careful about communication.
> > > >
> > > > It’s the same about EOL branch/release. Actually EOL doesn’t really
> > > exist at Apache: anyone can fix/change an old branch and cut a release
> on
> > > it.
> > > > So, I fully understand the purpose, but I think we should be more
> > > "flexible" and communicate early enough to our users.
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > JB
> > > >
> > > >> Le 29 juin 2020 à 22:23, Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]> a
> écrit
> > :
> > > >>
> > > >> Note that we changed a bunch of lambda expressions back to anonymous
> > > >> classes a few months ago, so trying to get to the latest is not
> always
> > > the
> > > >> best choice.
> > > >> I'm not sure we need to drop Java 8 now.  We can defer that decision
> > > until
> > > >> we have more incentive I think.,
> > > >>
> > > >> Le lun. 29 juin 2020 à 18:01, Peter Palaga <[hidden email]> a
> > > écrit :
> > > >>
> > > >>> On 29/06/2020 11:59, Peter Palaga wrote:
> > > >>>> On 29/06/2020 07:29, Claus Ibsen wrote:
> > > >>>>> Hi
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 4:28 PM Peter Palaga <[hidden email]
> >
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Hi Claus,
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> we have announced a similar move for Camel Quarkus some time
> ago.
> > We
> > > >>> did
> > > >>>>>> that based on a similar Quarkus announcement [1]. But when I was
> > > about
> > > >>>>>> to perform the necessary changes, it turned out that Quarkus got
> > > some
> > > >>>>>> pushback from the users and thus they abandoned the plan without
> > > >>> letting
> > > >>>>>> us know - see [2]. As a result, Camel Quarkus also had to
> revisit
> > > the
> > > >>>>>> plan. We have decided to make Java 11 our main build and testing
> > > JDK,
> > > >>>>>> but kept both source and target compatibility at Java 8.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Requiring Java 11+ API on the Camel side would put Camel Quarkus
> > in
> > > a
> > > >>>>>> bit uncomfortable position: unlike all other extensions offered
> > via
> > > >>>>>> code.quarkus.io, our extensions would not work on Java 8 in JVM
> > > mode.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> We (Camel community) should figure out how to proceed.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> The drop of Java 8 is planned for next LTS (Camel 3.7) which is
> by
> > > end
> > > >>>>> of this year.
> > > >>>>> So there is still 6 months to go. In that time Quarkus may get
> to a
> > > >>>>> point where they have dropped Java 8 as well.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> But for Camel 3.5 we can surely wait to drop Java 8 so it does
> not
> > > >>>>> happen soon on the Camel side.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Would ou you go ask the Quarkus team what new timeframe they have
> > for
> > > >>>>> dropping Java 8?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Asked
> > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/quarkus-dev/7SZAM2BMb9c
> > > >>>
> > > >>> They asked back, what are our motivations for removing Java 8. I
> can
> > > say
> > > >>> for myself that it is mainly a simplification of our testing
> matrix.
> > > Are
> > > >>> there any other reasons?
> > >
> > > Are there any other benefits of dropping Java 8?
> > >
> > > -- P
> > >
> > > >>> Besides they noted that Azure Functions still only supports Java 8.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> -- P
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> [1]
> > > >>>>>>
> > > https://quarkus.io/blog/quarkus-1-4-final-released/#java-8-deprecated
> > > >>>>>> [2]
> > > >>>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/quarkus-dev/yzEjmYCFbwY/oW64kts3AQAJ
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> Thanks,
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> -- Peter
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> On 26/06/2020 10:23, Claus Ibsen wrote:
> > > >>>>>>> Hi
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Just a heads up that from Camel 3.5 onwards we will drop Java 8
> > > >>>>>>> support.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> So this means that minimum Java version is now Java 11.
> > > >>>>>>> We are also working on adding support for Java 14, but it may
> > take
> > > a
> > > >>>>>>> few releases, but its planned for the next LTS 3.7 release to
> > have
> > > >>>>>>> both Java 11 and 14 as supported.
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>> Camel 3.4.x is the LTS release that supports both Java 8 and
> 11,
> > > and
> > > >>>>>>> its supported for 1-year (june 2022).
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>>
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> ------------------------
> > > >> Guillaume Nodet
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> ------------------------
> Guillaume Nodet
>
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Re: [HEADS UP] - Java 8 to be dropped

Omar Al-Safi
Also I see some discussion in the Quarkus mailing list that shares the idea
that at some point we have to upgrade and not to restrict ourselves with
the constraint of supporting older releases. Change has to happen at some
point.
Therefore, if Quarkus is the only obstacle, then I think the best we
coordinate with them, for example if we state our position clearly we want
to drop Java 8 by the beginning of 2021, then I am pretty sure, a similar
decision will be taken from the Quarkus side. As Luca mentioned, a brave
and bald move has to be taken ;).

Regards,
Omar

On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 2:20 PM Andrea Cosentino <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I don't know if it's feasible, we are already demanding a lot of work to
> the release manager and I guess going through the multi release jar
> approach will be much more troublesome.
>
> Il giorno mar 30 giu 2020 alle ore 14:14 Guillaume Nodet <
> [hidden email]>
> ha scritto:
>
> > We could try using the multi-release jar feature in order to leverage new
> > JDK 11 or JDK 14 features without completely dropping JDK 8, but that's
> > definitely more work.  I haven't seen many projects using it yet, so not
> > sure how that's manageable from a development perspective.
> >
> > Le mar. 30 juin 2020 à 13:50, Luca Burgazzoli <[hidden email]> a
> > écrit :
> >
> > > I think that unless someone "big" in the OSS makes a move, most
> libraries
> > > will stay with Java 8 till they are forced so I guess someone should be
> > > brave and make the move.
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Luca Burgazzoli
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 12:57 PM Peter Palaga <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 30/06/2020 09:29, Jean-Baptiste Onofre wrote:
> > > > > Agree, I think we should be very careful about communication.
> > > > >
> > > > > It’s the same about EOL branch/release. Actually EOL doesn’t really
> > > > exist at Apache: anyone can fix/change an old branch and cut a
> release
> > on
> > > > it.
> > > > > So, I fully understand the purpose, but I think we should be more
> > > > "flexible" and communicate early enough to our users.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > JB
> > > > >
> > > > >> Le 29 juin 2020 à 22:23, Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]> a
> > écrit
> > > :
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Note that we changed a bunch of lambda expressions back to
> anonymous
> > > > >> classes a few months ago, so trying to get to the latest is not
> > always
> > > > the
> > > > >> best choice.
> > > > >> I'm not sure we need to drop Java 8 now.  We can defer that
> decision
> > > > until
> > > > >> we have more incentive I think.,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Le lun. 29 juin 2020 à 18:01, Peter Palaga <[hidden email]> a
> > > > écrit :
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> On 29/06/2020 11:59, Peter Palaga wrote:
> > > > >>>> On 29/06/2020 07:29, Claus Ibsen wrote:
> > > > >>>>> Hi
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 4:28 PM Peter Palaga <
> [hidden email]
> > >
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Hi Claus,
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> we have announced a similar move for Camel Quarkus some time
> > ago.
> > > We
> > > > >>> did
> > > > >>>>>> that based on a similar Quarkus announcement [1]. But when I
> was
> > > > about
> > > > >>>>>> to perform the necessary changes, it turned out that Quarkus
> got
> > > > some
> > > > >>>>>> pushback from the users and thus they abandoned the plan
> without
> > > > >>> letting
> > > > >>>>>> us know - see [2]. As a result, Camel Quarkus also had to
> > revisit
> > > > the
> > > > >>>>>> plan. We have decided to make Java 11 our main build and
> testing
> > > > JDK,
> > > > >>>>>> but kept both source and target compatibility at Java 8.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Requiring Java 11+ API on the Camel side would put Camel
> Quarkus
> > > in
> > > > a
> > > > >>>>>> bit uncomfortable position: unlike all other extensions
> offered
> > > via
> > > > >>>>>> code.quarkus.io, our extensions would not work on Java 8 in
> JVM
> > > > mode.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> We (Camel community) should figure out how to proceed.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> The drop of Java 8 is planned for next LTS (Camel 3.7) which is
> > by
> > > > end
> > > > >>>>> of this year.
> > > > >>>>> So there is still 6 months to go. In that time Quarkus may get
> > to a
> > > > >>>>> point where they have dropped Java 8 as well.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> But for Camel 3.5 we can surely wait to drop Java 8 so it does
> > not
> > > > >>>>> happen soon on the Camel side.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Would ou you go ask the Quarkus team what new timeframe they
> have
> > > for
> > > > >>>>> dropping Java 8?
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Asked
> > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/quarkus-dev/7SZAM2BMb9c
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> They asked back, what are our motivations for removing Java 8. I
> > can
> > > > say
> > > > >>> for myself that it is mainly a simplification of our testing
> > matrix.
> > > > Are
> > > > >>> there any other reasons?
> > > >
> > > > Are there any other benefits of dropping Java 8?
> > > >
> > > > -- P
> > > >
> > > > >>> Besides they noted that Azure Functions still only supports Java
> 8.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> -- P
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> [1]
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > >
> https://quarkus.io/blog/quarkus-1-4-final-released/#java-8-deprecated
> > > > >>>>>> [2]
> > > > >>>
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/quarkus-dev/yzEjmYCFbwY/oW64kts3AQAJ
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Thanks,
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> -- Peter
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> On 26/06/2020 10:23, Claus Ibsen wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>> Hi
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Just a heads up that from Camel 3.5 onwards we will drop
> Java 8
> > > > >>>>>>> support.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> So this means that minimum Java version is now Java 11.
> > > > >>>>>>> We are also working on adding support for Java 14, but it may
> > > take
> > > > a
> > > > >>>>>>> few releases, but its planned for the next LTS 3.7 release to
> > > have
> > > > >>>>>>> both Java 11 and 14 as supported.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Camel 3.4.x is the LTS release that supports both Java 8 and
> > 11,
> > > > and
> > > > >>>>>>> its supported for 1-year (june 2022).
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> ------------------------
> > > > >> Guillaume Nodet
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ------------------------
> > Guillaume Nodet
> >
>
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Re: [HEADS UP] - Java 8 to be dropped

Guillaume Nodet-2
In reply to this post by Andrea Cosentino-3
Oh, I wasn't even considering it if it can't be done in a single automated
maven run.
I haven't checked with latest maven plugins, but I was more thinking about
the cost of managing multiple versions of the same source file and how IDE
can support those.
See https://www.baeldung.com/maven-multi-release-jars
I think it can be done for specific spots where it makes sense.

Here's a short list of JDK language enhancements:
JDK 9-10-11:
  * <Collection>.of()
  * more functions in the stream api
  * private interface methods
  * http/2 client support
  * local-variable type inference in variables and lambda parameters
  * new String methods : isBlank(), lines(), repeat(int), unicode aware
strip(), stripLeading() and stripTrailing()
  * new File methods: writeString(), readString() and isSameFile()
JDK 12-13-14:
  * switch expressions
  * teeing in the stream api
  * new String methods: indent(), transform(), formatted(), striIndent(),
translateEscapes()
  * new Files.mismatch() method

I'd be more inclined to wait a bit and jump straight to JDK 14 to be able
to leverage the switch expressions.  For new methods on String / File, we
could prepare the code by adding helper methods that would simply call the
JDK ones by leveraging multi-release jars if it can prove useful.

Another thought would be to leverage some tool like jabel (
https://github.com/bsideup/jabel) to be able to leverage pure syntactic
sugar improvements, but i've tried to get rid of annotation processors the
last months, so not sure that's a good idea.

Le mar. 30 juin 2020 à 14:20, Andrea Cosentino <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> I don't know if it's feasible, we are already demanding a lot of work to
> the release manager and I guess going through the multi release jar
> approach will be much more troublesome.
>
> Il giorno mar 30 giu 2020 alle ore 14:14 Guillaume Nodet <
> [hidden email]>
> ha scritto:
>
> > We could try using the multi-release jar feature in order to leverage new
> > JDK 11 or JDK 14 features without completely dropping JDK 8, but that's
> > definitely more work.  I haven't seen many projects using it yet, so not
> > sure how that's manageable from a development perspective.
> >
> > Le mar. 30 juin 2020 à 13:50, Luca Burgazzoli <[hidden email]> a
> > écrit :
> >
> > > I think that unless someone "big" in the OSS makes a move, most
> libraries
> > > will stay with Java 8 till they are forced so I guess someone should be
> > > brave and make the move.
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Luca Burgazzoli
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 12:57 PM Peter Palaga <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 30/06/2020 09:29, Jean-Baptiste Onofre wrote:
> > > > > Agree, I think we should be very careful about communication.
> > > > >
> > > > > It’s the same about EOL branch/release. Actually EOL doesn’t really
> > > > exist at Apache: anyone can fix/change an old branch and cut a
> release
> > on
> > > > it.
> > > > > So, I fully understand the purpose, but I think we should be more
> > > > "flexible" and communicate early enough to our users.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > JB
> > > > >
> > > > >> Le 29 juin 2020 à 22:23, Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]> a
> > écrit
> > > :
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Note that we changed a bunch of lambda expressions back to
> anonymous
> > > > >> classes a few months ago, so trying to get to the latest is not
> > always
> > > > the
> > > > >> best choice.
> > > > >> I'm not sure we need to drop Java 8 now.  We can defer that
> decision
> > > > until
> > > > >> we have more incentive I think.,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Le lun. 29 juin 2020 à 18:01, Peter Palaga <[hidden email]> a
> > > > écrit :
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> On 29/06/2020 11:59, Peter Palaga wrote:
> > > > >>>> On 29/06/2020 07:29, Claus Ibsen wrote:
> > > > >>>>> Hi
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 4:28 PM Peter Palaga <
> [hidden email]
> > >
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Hi Claus,
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> we have announced a similar move for Camel Quarkus some time
> > ago.
> > > We
> > > > >>> did
> > > > >>>>>> that based on a similar Quarkus announcement [1]. But when I
> was
> > > > about
> > > > >>>>>> to perform the necessary changes, it turned out that Quarkus
> got
> > > > some
> > > > >>>>>> pushback from the users and thus they abandoned the plan
> without
> > > > >>> letting
> > > > >>>>>> us know - see [2]. As a result, Camel Quarkus also had to
> > revisit
> > > > the
> > > > >>>>>> plan. We have decided to make Java 11 our main build and
> testing
> > > > JDK,
> > > > >>>>>> but kept both source and target compatibility at Java 8.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Requiring Java 11+ API on the Camel side would put Camel
> Quarkus
> > > in
> > > > a
> > > > >>>>>> bit uncomfortable position: unlike all other extensions
> offered
> > > via
> > > > >>>>>> code.quarkus.io, our extensions would not work on Java 8 in
> JVM
> > > > mode.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> We (Camel community) should figure out how to proceed.
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> The drop of Java 8 is planned for next LTS (Camel 3.7) which is
> > by
> > > > end
> > > > >>>>> of this year.
> > > > >>>>> So there is still 6 months to go. In that time Quarkus may get
> > to a
> > > > >>>>> point where they have dropped Java 8 as well.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> But for Camel 3.5 we can surely wait to drop Java 8 so it does
> > not
> > > > >>>>> happen soon on the Camel side.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Would ou you go ask the Quarkus team what new timeframe they
> have
> > > for
> > > > >>>>> dropping Java 8?
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Asked
> > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/quarkus-dev/7SZAM2BMb9c
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> They asked back, what are our motivations for removing Java 8. I
> > can
> > > > say
> > > > >>> for myself that it is mainly a simplification of our testing
> > matrix.
> > > > Are
> > > > >>> there any other reasons?
> > > >
> > > > Are there any other benefits of dropping Java 8?
> > > >
> > > > -- P
> > > >
> > > > >>> Besides they noted that Azure Functions still only supports Java
> 8.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> -- P
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> [1]
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > >
> https://quarkus.io/blog/quarkus-1-4-final-released/#java-8-deprecated
> > > > >>>>>> [2]
> > > > >>>
> > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/quarkus-dev/yzEjmYCFbwY/oW64kts3AQAJ
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> Thanks,
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> -- Peter
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> On 26/06/2020 10:23, Claus Ibsen wrote:
> > > > >>>>>>> Hi
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Just a heads up that from Camel 3.5 onwards we will drop
> Java 8
> > > > >>>>>>> support.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> So this means that minimum Java version is now Java 11.
> > > > >>>>>>> We are also working on adding support for Java 14, but it may
> > > take
> > > > a
> > > > >>>>>>> few releases, but its planned for the next LTS 3.7 release to
> > > have
> > > > >>>>>>> both Java 11 and 14 as supported.
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>> Camel 3.4.x is the LTS release that supports both Java 8 and
> > 11,
> > > > and
> > > > >>>>>>> its supported for 1-year (june 2022).
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> ------------------------
> > > > >> Guillaume Nodet
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ------------------------
> > Guillaume Nodet
> >
>


--
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
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Re: [HEADS UP] - Java 8 to be dropped

lburgazzoli
I'd say that we'll have the same discussion for Java 14, hopefully not for
keeping Java 8 but maybe for Java 11 so I think what we need to define is
the policy, rather than the specific version.

---
Luca Burgazzoli


On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 4:56 PM Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Oh, I wasn't even considering it if it can't be done in a single automated
> maven run.
> I haven't checked with latest maven plugins, but I was more thinking about
> the cost of managing multiple versions of the same source file and how IDE
> can support those.
> See https://www.baeldung.com/maven-multi-release-jars
> I think it can be done for specific spots where it makes sense.
>
> Here's a short list of JDK language enhancements:
> JDK 9-10-11:
>   * <Collection>.of()
>   * more functions in the stream api
>   * private interface methods
>   * http/2 client support
>   * local-variable type inference in variables and lambda parameters
>   * new String methods : isBlank(), lines(), repeat(int), unicode aware
> strip(), stripLeading() and stripTrailing()
>   * new File methods: writeString(), readString() and isSameFile()
> JDK 12-13-14:
>   * switch expressions
>   * teeing in the stream api
>   * new String methods: indent(), transform(), formatted(), striIndent(),
> translateEscapes()
>   * new Files.mismatch() method
>
> I'd be more inclined to wait a bit and jump straight to JDK 14 to be able
> to leverage the switch expressions.  For new methods on String / File, we
> could prepare the code by adding helper methods that would simply call the
> JDK ones by leveraging multi-release jars if it can prove useful.
>
> Another thought would be to leverage some tool like jabel (
> https://github.com/bsideup/jabel) to be able to leverage pure syntactic
> sugar improvements, but i've tried to get rid of annotation processors the
> last months, so not sure that's a good idea.
>
> Le mar. 30 juin 2020 à 14:20, Andrea Cosentino <[hidden email]> a
> écrit :
>
> > I don't know if it's feasible, we are already demanding a lot of work to
> > the release manager and I guess going through the multi release jar
> > approach will be much more troublesome.
> >
> > Il giorno mar 30 giu 2020 alle ore 14:14 Guillaume Nodet <
> > [hidden email]>
> > ha scritto:
> >
> > > We could try using the multi-release jar feature in order to leverage
> new
> > > JDK 11 or JDK 14 features without completely dropping JDK 8, but that's
> > > definitely more work.  I haven't seen many projects using it yet, so
> not
> > > sure how that's manageable from a development perspective.
> > >
> > > Le mar. 30 juin 2020 à 13:50, Luca Burgazzoli <[hidden email]>
> a
> > > écrit :
> > >
> > > > I think that unless someone "big" in the OSS makes a move, most
> > libraries
> > > > will stay with Java 8 till they are forced so I guess someone should
> be
> > > > brave and make the move.
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Luca Burgazzoli
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 12:57 PM Peter Palaga <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 30/06/2020 09:29, Jean-Baptiste Onofre wrote:
> > > > > > Agree, I think we should be very careful about communication.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It’s the same about EOL branch/release. Actually EOL doesn’t
> really
> > > > > exist at Apache: anyone can fix/change an old branch and cut a
> > release
> > > on
> > > > > it.
> > > > > > So, I fully understand the purpose, but I think we should be more
> > > > > "flexible" and communicate early enough to our users.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > JB
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Le 29 juin 2020 à 22:23, Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]> a
> > > écrit
> > > > :
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Note that we changed a bunch of lambda expressions back to
> > anonymous
> > > > > >> classes a few months ago, so trying to get to the latest is not
> > > always
> > > > > the
> > > > > >> best choice.
> > > > > >> I'm not sure we need to drop Java 8 now.  We can defer that
> > decision
> > > > > until
> > > > > >> we have more incentive I think.,
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Le lun. 29 juin 2020 à 18:01, Peter Palaga <[hidden email]>
> a
> > > > > écrit :
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> On 29/06/2020 11:59, Peter Palaga wrote:
> > > > > >>>> On 29/06/2020 07:29, Claus Ibsen wrote:
> > > > > >>>>> Hi
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 4:28 PM Peter Palaga <
> > [hidden email]
> > > >
> > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Hi Claus,
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> we have announced a similar move for Camel Quarkus some time
> > > ago.
> > > > We
> > > > > >>> did
> > > > > >>>>>> that based on a similar Quarkus announcement [1]. But when I
> > was
> > > > > about
> > > > > >>>>>> to perform the necessary changes, it turned out that Quarkus
> > got
> > > > > some
> > > > > >>>>>> pushback from the users and thus they abandoned the plan
> > without
> > > > > >>> letting
> > > > > >>>>>> us know - see [2]. As a result, Camel Quarkus also had to
> > > revisit
> > > > > the
> > > > > >>>>>> plan. We have decided to make Java 11 our main build and
> > testing
> > > > > JDK,
> > > > > >>>>>> but kept both source and target compatibility at Java 8.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Requiring Java 11+ API on the Camel side would put Camel
> > Quarkus
> > > > in
> > > > > a
> > > > > >>>>>> bit uncomfortable position: unlike all other extensions
> > offered
> > > > via
> > > > > >>>>>> code.quarkus.io, our extensions would not work on Java 8 in
> > JVM
> > > > > mode.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> We (Camel community) should figure out how to proceed.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> The drop of Java 8 is planned for next LTS (Camel 3.7) which
> is
> > > by
> > > > > end
> > > > > >>>>> of this year.
> > > > > >>>>> So there is still 6 months to go. In that time Quarkus may
> get
> > > to a
> > > > > >>>>> point where they have dropped Java 8 as well.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> But for Camel 3.5 we can surely wait to drop Java 8 so it
> does
> > > not
> > > > > >>>>> happen soon on the Camel side.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Would ou you go ask the Quarkus team what new timeframe they
> > have
> > > > for
> > > > > >>>>> dropping Java 8?
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Asked
> > > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/quarkus-dev/7SZAM2BMb9c
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> They asked back, what are our motivations for removing Java 8.
> I
> > > can
> > > > > say
> > > > > >>> for myself that it is mainly a simplification of our testing
> > > matrix.
> > > > > Are
> > > > > >>> there any other reasons?
> > > > >
> > > > > Are there any other benefits of dropping Java 8?
> > > > >
> > > > > -- P
> > > > >
> > > > > >>> Besides they noted that Azure Functions still only supports
> Java
> > 8.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> -- P
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> [1]
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >
> > https://quarkus.io/blog/quarkus-1-4-final-released/#java-8-deprecated
> > > > > >>>>>> [2]
> > > > > >>>
> > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/quarkus-dev/yzEjmYCFbwY/oW64kts3AQAJ
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Thanks,
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> -- Peter
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> On 26/06/2020 10:23, Claus Ibsen wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>> Hi
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> Just a heads up that from Camel 3.5 onwards we will drop
> > Java 8
> > > > > >>>>>>> support.
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> So this means that minimum Java version is now Java 11.
> > > > > >>>>>>> We are also working on adding support for Java 14, but it
> may
> > > > take
> > > > > a
> > > > > >>>>>>> few releases, but its planned for the next LTS 3.7 release
> to
> > > > have
> > > > > >>>>>>> both Java 11 and 14 as supported.
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> Camel 3.4.x is the LTS release that supports both Java 8
> and
> > > 11,
> > > > > and
> > > > > >>>>>>> its supported for 1-year (june 2022).
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> --
> > > > > >> ------------------------
> > > > > >> Guillaume Nodet
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > ------------------------
> > > Guillaume Nodet
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> ------------------------
> Guillaume Nodet
>
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Re: [HEADS UP] - Java 8 to be dropped

jbonofre
In reply to this post by Omar Al-Safi
I think we are all agree about that. But it should be discussed and announce early enough.

Today, I don’t think we really leverage JDK 9+ stuff.

Regards
JB

> Le 30 juin 2020 à 13:49, Omar Al-Safi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> My question would be, until when we will need to keep Java 8? I mean sure,
> given the current circumstances, it might make sense to delay dropping Java
> 8 only for some time, but honestly would be nice if we can embrace the new
> change and massive efforts that are being brought into Java to have
> modernized (especially the new features being Java 14). It would be a pity
> if we can't enjoy these new features being brought in by the Java community
> and I don't want to see us stucking with Java 8 for another 10 years.
> The change has to be forced at some point of the chain in order to trickle
> down.
>
> These are only my thoughts on this subject.
>
> Regards,
> Omar
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 1:33 PM Luca Burgazzoli <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> I don't think that migrating to a new version also means that we need to
>> embrace every new feature automatically but that we can use them when it
>> makes sense but staying with an older version means that we can't use them
>> in any case.
>>
>> ---
>> Luca Burgazzoli
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 10:23 PM Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Note that we changed a bunch of lambda expressions back to anonymous
>>> classes a few months ago, so trying to get to the latest is not always
>> the
>>> best choice.
>>> I'm not sure we need to drop Java 8 now.  We can defer that decision
>> until
>>> we have more incentive I think.,
>>>
>>> Le lun. 29 juin 2020 à 18:01, Peter Palaga <[hidden email]> a écrit
>> :
>>>
>>>> On 29/06/2020 11:59, Peter Palaga wrote:
>>>>> On 29/06/2020 07:29, Claus Ibsen wrote:
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 4:28 PM Peter Palaga <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Claus,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> we have announced a similar move for Camel Quarkus some time ago.
>> We
>>>> did
>>>>>>> that based on a similar Quarkus announcement [1]. But when I was
>>> about
>>>>>>> to perform the necessary changes, it turned out that Quarkus got
>> some
>>>>>>> pushback from the users and thus they abandoned the plan without
>>>> letting
>>>>>>> us know - see [2]. As a result, Camel Quarkus also had to revisit
>> the
>>>>>>> plan. We have decided to make Java 11 our main build and testing
>> JDK,
>>>>>>> but kept both source and target compatibility at Java 8.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Requiring Java 11+ API on the Camel side would put Camel Quarkus
>> in a
>>>>>>> bit uncomfortable position: unlike all other extensions offered via
>>>>>>> code.quarkus.io, our extensions would not work on Java 8 in JVM
>>> mode.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We (Camel community) should figure out how to proceed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The drop of Java 8 is planned for next LTS (Camel 3.7) which is by
>> end
>>>>>> of this year.
>>>>>> So there is still 6 months to go. In that time Quarkus may get to a
>>>>>> point where they have dropped Java 8 as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But for Camel 3.5 we can surely wait to drop Java 8 so it does not
>>>>>> happen soon on the Camel side.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would ou you go ask the Quarkus team what new timeframe they have
>> for
>>>>>> dropping Java 8?
>>>>>
>>>>> Asked
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/quarkus-dev/7SZAM2BMb9c
>>>>
>>>> They asked back, what are our motivations for removing Java 8. I can
>> say
>>>> for myself that it is mainly a simplification of our testing matrix.
>> Are
>>>> there any other reasons?
>>>>
>>>> Besides they noted that Azure Functions still only supports Java 8.
>>>>
>>>> -- P
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>>
>>> https://quarkus.io/blog/quarkus-1-4-final-released/#java-8-deprecated
>>>>>>> [2]
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/quarkus-dev/yzEjmYCFbwY/oW64kts3AQAJ
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- Peter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 26/06/2020 10:23, Claus Ibsen wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just a heads up that from Camel 3.5 onwards we will drop Java 8
>>>>>>>> support.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So this means that minimum Java version is now Java 11.
>>>>>>>> We are also working on adding support for Java 14, but it may
>> take a
>>>>>>>> few releases, but its planned for the next LTS 3.7 release to have
>>>>>>>> both Java 11 and 14 as supported.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Camel 3.4.x is the LTS release that supports both Java 8 and 11,
>> and
>>>>>>>> its supported for 1-year (june 2022).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------
>>> Guillaume Nodet
>>>
>>

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Re: [HEADS UP] - Java 8 to be dropped

Andrea Cosentino-2
It has been already discussed and it's been reported in blog post and everywhere. It has been said early enough for sure.

--
Andrea Cosentino 
----------------------------------
Apache Camel PMC Chair
Apache Karaf Committer
Apache Servicemix PMC Member
Email: [hidden email]
Twitter: @oscerd2
Github: oscerd






On Tuesday, June 30, 2020, 05:12:31 PM GMT+2, Jean-Baptiste Onofre <[hidden email]> wrote:





I think we are all agree about that. But it should be discussed and announce early enough.

Today, I don’t think we really leverage JDK 9+ stuff.

Regards
JB

> Le 30 juin 2020 à 13:49, Omar Al-Safi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> My question would be, until when we will need to keep Java 8? I mean sure,
> given the current circumstances, it might make sense to delay dropping Java
> 8 only for some time, but honestly would be nice if we can embrace the new
> change and massive efforts that are being brought into Java to have
> modernized (especially the new features being Java 14). It would be a pity
> if we can't enjoy these new features being brought in by the Java community
> and I don't want to see us stucking with Java 8 for another 10 years.
> The change has to be forced at some point of the chain in order to trickle
> down.
>
> These are only my thoughts on this subject.
>
> Regards,
> Omar
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 1:33 PM Luca Burgazzoli <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> I don't think that migrating to a new version also means that we need to
>> embrace every new feature automatically but that we can use them when it
>> makes sense but staying with an older version means that we can't use them
>> in any case.
>>
>> ---
>> Luca Burgazzoli
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 10:23 PM Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Note that we changed a bunch of lambda expressions back to anonymous
>>> classes a few months ago, so trying to get to the latest is not always
>> the
>>> best choice.
>>> I'm not sure we need to drop Java 8 now.  We can defer that decision
>> until
>>> we have more incentive I think.,
>>>
>>> Le lun. 29 juin 2020 à 18:01, Peter Palaga <[hidden email]> a écrit
>> :
>>>
>>>> On 29/06/2020 11:59, Peter Palaga wrote:
>>>>> On 29/06/2020 07:29, Claus Ibsen wrote:
>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 4:28 PM Peter Palaga <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Claus,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> we have announced a similar move for Camel Quarkus some time ago.
>> We
>>>> did
>>>>>>> that based on a similar Quarkus announcement [1]. But when I was
>>> about
>>>>>>> to perform the necessary changes, it turned out that Quarkus got
>> some
>>>>>>> pushback from the users and thus they abandoned the plan without
>>>> letting
>>>>>>> us know - see [2]. As a result, Camel Quarkus also had to revisit
>> the
>>>>>>> plan. We have decided to make Java 11 our main build and testing
>> JDK,
>>>>>>> but kept both source and target compatibility at Java 8.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Requiring Java 11+ API on the Camel side would put Camel Quarkus
>> in a
>>>>>>> bit uncomfortable position: unlike all other extensions offered via
>>>>>>> code.quarkus.io, our extensions would not work on Java 8 in JVM
>>> mode.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We (Camel community) should figure out how to proceed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The drop of Java 8 is planned for next LTS (Camel 3.7) which is by
>> end
>>>>>> of this year.
>>>>>> So there is still 6 months to go. In that time Quarkus may get to a
>>>>>> point where they have dropped Java 8 as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But for Camel 3.5 we can surely wait to drop Java 8 so it does not
>>>>>> happen soon on the Camel side.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would ou you go ask the Quarkus team what new timeframe they have
>> for
>>>>>> dropping Java 8?
>>>>>
>>>>> Asked
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/quarkus-dev/7SZAM2BMb9c
>>>>
>>>> They asked back, what are our motivations for removing Java 8. I can
>> say
>>>> for myself that it is mainly a simplification of our testing matrix.
>> Are
>>>> there any other reasons?
>>>>
>>>> Besides they noted that Azure Functions still only supports Java 8.
>>>>
>>>> -- P
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>>
>>> https://quarkus.io/blog/quarkus-1-4-final-released/#java-8-deprecated
>>>>>>> [2]
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/quarkus-dev/yzEjmYCFbwY/oW64kts3AQAJ
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- Peter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 26/06/2020 10:23, Claus Ibsen wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just a heads up that from Camel 3.5 onwards we will drop Java 8
>>>>>>>> support.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So this means that minimum Java version is now Java 11.
>>>>>>>> We are also working on adding support for Java 14, but it may
>> take a
>>>>>>>> few releases, but its planned for the next LTS 3.7 release to have
>>>>>>>> both Java 11 and 14 as supported.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Camel 3.4.x is the LTS release that supports both Java 8 and 11,
>> and
>>>>>>>> its supported for 1-year (june 2022).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------
>>> Guillaume Nodet
>>>
>>
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Re: [HEADS UP] - Java 8 to be dropped

jbonofre
My point is more about the "form". I’m not against, but it seems we have concerns from several people now. So, even if it has been discussed, maybe we didn’t do a vote or having formal vote.

Anyway, if you think it’s good enough from a community perspective, I’m fine with that, and again agree to move forward dropping Java8,  but it’s weird we have concerns only now (and not during the discussion) ;)

Regards
JB

> Le 30 juin 2020 à 18:46, Andrea Cosentino <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> It has been already discussed and it's been reported in blog post and everywhere. It has been said early enough for sure.
>
> --
> Andrea Cosentino
> ----------------------------------
> Apache Camel PMC Chair
> Apache Karaf Committer
> Apache Servicemix PMC Member
> Email: [hidden email]
> Twitter: @oscerd2
> Github: oscerd
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, June 30, 2020, 05:12:31 PM GMT+2, Jean-Baptiste Onofre <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> I think we are all agree about that. But it should be discussed and announce early enough.
>
> Today, I don’t think we really leverage JDK 9+ stuff.
>
> Regards
> JB
>
>> Le 30 juin 2020 à 13:49, Omar Al-Safi <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>>
>> My question would be, until when we will need to keep Java 8? I mean sure,
>> given the current circumstances, it might make sense to delay dropping Java
>> 8 only for some time, but honestly would be nice if we can embrace the new
>> change and massive efforts that are being brought into Java to have
>> modernized (especially the new features being Java 14). It would be a pity
>> if we can't enjoy these new features being brought in by the Java community
>> and I don't want to see us stucking with Java 8 for another 10 years.
>> The change has to be forced at some point of the chain in order to trickle
>> down.
>>
>> These are only my thoughts on this subject.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Omar
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 1:33 PM Luca Burgazzoli <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't think that migrating to a new version also means that we need to
>>> embrace every new feature automatically but that we can use them when it
>>> makes sense but staying with an older version means that we can't use them
>>> in any case.
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Luca Burgazzoli
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 10:23 PM Guillaume Nodet <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Note that we changed a bunch of lambda expressions back to anonymous
>>>> classes a few months ago, so trying to get to the latest is not always
>>> the
>>>> best choice.
>>>> I'm not sure we need to drop Java 8 now.  We can defer that decision
>>> until
>>>> we have more incentive I think.,
>>>>
>>>> Le lun. 29 juin 2020 à 18:01, Peter Palaga <[hidden email]> a écrit
>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> On 29/06/2020 11:59, Peter Palaga wrote:
>>>>>> On 29/06/2020 07:29, Claus Ibsen wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 4:28 PM Peter Palaga <[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Claus,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> we have announced a similar move for Camel Quarkus some time ago.
>>> We
>>>>> did
>>>>>>>> that based on a similar Quarkus announcement [1]. But when I was
>>>> about
>>>>>>>> to perform the necessary changes, it turned out that Quarkus got
>>> some
>>>>>>>> pushback from the users and thus they abandoned the plan without
>>>>> letting
>>>>>>>> us know - see [2]. As a result, Camel Quarkus also had to revisit
>>> the
>>>>>>>> plan. We have decided to make Java 11 our main build and testing
>>> JDK,
>>>>>>>> but kept both source and target compatibility at Java 8.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Requiring Java 11+ API on the Camel side would put Camel Quarkus
>>> in a
>>>>>>>> bit uncomfortable position: unlike all other extensions offered via
>>>>>>>> code.quarkus.io, our extensions would not work on Java 8 in JVM
>>>> mode.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We (Camel community) should figure out how to proceed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The drop of Java 8 is planned for next LTS (Camel 3.7) which is by
>>> end
>>>>>>> of this year.
>>>>>>> So there is still 6 months to go. In that time Quarkus may get to a
>>>>>>> point where they have dropped Java 8 as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But for Camel 3.5 we can surely wait to drop Java 8 so it does not
>>>>>>> happen soon on the Camel side.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would ou you go ask the Quarkus team what new timeframe they have
>>> for
>>>>>>> dropping Java 8?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Asked
>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/quarkus-dev/7SZAM2BMb9c
>>>>>
>>>>> They asked back, what are our motivations for removing Java 8. I can
>>> say
>>>>> for myself that it is mainly a simplification of our testing matrix.
>>> Are
>>>>> there any other reasons?
>>>>>
>>>>> Besides they noted that Azure Functions still only supports Java 8.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- P
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>>>
>>>> https://quarkus.io/blog/quarkus-1-4-final-released/#java-8-deprecated
>>>>>>>> [2]
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/quarkus-dev/yzEjmYCFbwY/oW64kts3AQAJ
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- Peter
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 26/06/2020 10:23, Claus Ibsen wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just a heads up that from Camel 3.5 onwards we will drop Java 8
>>>>>>>>> support.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So this means that minimum Java version is now Java 11.
>>>>>>>>> We are also working on adding support for Java 14, but it may
>>> take a
>>>>>>>>> few releases, but its planned for the next LTS 3.7 release to have
>>>>>>>>> both Java 11 and 14 as supported.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Camel 3.4.x is the LTS release that supports both Java 8 and 11,
>>> and
>>>>>>>>> its supported for 1-year (june 2022).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ------------------------
>>>> Guillaume Nodet
>>>>
>>>

12